In just the time from seeing He Named Me Malala at a press screening in early September to talking with director Davis Guggenheim in early October, the documentary has already become more urgent. Certainly, the Syrian refugee crisis calls out for a humane response from nations everywhere—yet most who fled the country have been met with animosity and suspicion rather than empathy and compassion.
But in America, many have mischaracterized Islam, most notably Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson in his insinuations that the religion’s teachings are anathema to democratic values. The time is right for Malala Yousafzai’s compassionate voice to ring out loudly from cinemas everywhere. I talked with Guggenheim about how he made her so special and yet so normal, all while keeping the spotlight on the issue she advocates: the right of females to receive an education.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
You’ve made a lot of documentaries that have focused on big issues: An Inconvenient Truth with global warming, Waiting for Superman with education, and now He Named Me Malala with the right to education worldwide. The other two movies are more issue-based and had strong faces, but they are not so much portraiture. How did this change your approach on He Named Me Malala?
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
Every story is different. In this case, there is a big issue where there are 66 million girls that are out of school. As you see the images of this refugee crisis now, I think that those kids could be those kids we saw on the border with Malala a year ago [in the documentary]. And she certainly feels this great bond to these kids that are refugees suffering as she did. And she feels like she’s the only voice for them. But you’re right, I chose to tell a more personal story. The feeling was that if you got to know her and feel that she’s a genuine person to get a sense of her mission, girls everywhere would connect with her.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
I’ve read in some quarters that Malala does not consider herself a feminist, yet she has become this feminist icon. Can you speak to how she might interact with the concept?
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
That’s never come up, and I’ve never heard it come up with her. I don’t want to speculate for her. The word “feminist” is so loaded. But if feminism means strong women who are advocating for what they rightfully deserve, she is in that camp. But I would never want to label her anything. That’s up to her.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
To quote Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie [by way of “Flawless” by Beyoncé], feminism is “the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.” That certainly sounds like something she’s fighting for.
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
Absolutely. I like the idea that feminism is making a comeback now with Lena Dunham and Beyoncé. For a long time, it was a dirty word, but before that it was a very beautiful word of women fighting for their rights. Certainly, when you look at Pakistan, some women don’t even have a name. They are called “the daughter of,” “the mother of.” [Malala’s] father used to tell me that you would go to the doctor’s office and sign in, and the woman wouldn’t have a name. She would be “the wife of,” “the daughter of.” What her father was doing was advocating for the rights of girls. So they’re definitely connected.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
I thought it was really fascinating to watch the generational differences between Malala and her mother in regards to religion and gender roles. Malala talks about how she’s not trying to upend Islam but that she sees the basis for gender equality within her religion. What do you think she has to offer people of all faiths?
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
The first thing I would say is that I realized how ignorant I was about Islam and Muslims when I started this movie. Part of it is the steady stream of negative news every night about a very small group that claims they’re Muslims but really aren’t.
What I learned from this family is that so many of the kinds of teachings that they believe in are very similar to what Christians and Jews believe—my mother is Christian, my father is Jewish. But this idea of forgiveness, of tolerance, of speaking the truth—those are so fundamental to Malala and her family.
And you realize that [they] are more representative of Muslims than the people you see on TV every night. Ninety-five percent of all Muslims are very peaceful people who want the same for their kids as we do.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
I think it shows in the attitudes and the polling. I saw a poll out of North Carolina showing that the state is split over whether the religion of Islam should be illegal.
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
[chuckles] Islam is a peaceful religion, and the Middle East is a peaceful place. The thing that is heartbreaking for them—and Malala’s father says this—is that these religious groups that are seeking power are misusing the name of Islam for their own good. I think here in America, people misuse the name of Christianity. Opportunists do that, and people might look down on born-again Christians because there are a few that are acting in an extreme way. But I imagine most born-again Christians are extremely tolerant.
That’s why a movie like this is so important. You meet a girl like this, and the kitchen table she sits around is a lot like the table my family sits around. Girls in America have a lot to learn from this girl. She faced a lot of adversity, and when she faced up to it and spoke out, she became stronger for it. And she changed the world. I think our daughters and sisters can do the same thing.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
In documentaries, it’s pretty standard practice to overshoot and cut as you find the narrative. Do you know the ratio [of footage shot to footage used]?
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
I used to calculate it when I started out, but now I don’t calculate it anymore! The better I get at it, the better my ratio is. So I would say my ratio is getting better over time as I kind of know what I want. We didn’t have a crazy ratio on this movie.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
In terms of things you did have to cut out, was there anything particularly gut-wrenching you had to leave out?
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
There is a beautiful animation we did of Malala talking about what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be a movie star or a scientist[…] It was such a great animation, and we loved it, but couldn’t find a place for it in the movie.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
Hopefully it’ll be on the DVD extras!
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
If there is such a thing anymore…
MOVIE MEZZANINE
I still buy them, but I realize I’m one of the few.
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
So you’re that guy who buys DVDs.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
One last question, and it’s briefly hinted at when you’re showing some of the archival footage: Is there still a group of conspiracy theorists who think Malala is lying and that her dad wrote the story?
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
I was in Toronto at the film festival [Toronto International Film Festival, where the film had its international premiere] leaving an event, and I got picked up by a cab driver. He said, “You got a movie here?” I said, yes, about Malala, and he said, “Oh, she’s an agent of the CIA.” And I go, “Where are you from?” He goes, “I’m from the same part [of Pakistan] she is, the Swat Valley.” We start talking about it[…] He was a young Pashtun immigrant. I go, “Well I spent the last two years with her,” and we talk about her home and what she was doing. I was at the Syrian border with her.
By the end of the cab drive, he was like, “I was wrong. And this cab ride, you don’t have to pay.” There’s this thing called Pashtunwali, a tradition of how you treat one another. [This is the same code that saved Marcus Luttrell as recounted in the 2007 book and 2013 film Lone Survivor.] If someone comes to your house, you serve them tea. And he goes, “I won’t let you pay for this cab, you’ve told this amazing story.” He started out with this myth and after a short cab ride, he’d already changed his mind.
MOVIE MEZZANINE
I can only imagine how many minds are going to be changed by people who watch the whole documentary.
DAVIS GUGGENHEIM
Well, thank you.
He Named Me Malala is now in theaters nationwide.
